I Got You Babe: Isabel’s problem

Latin introvert: to turn within

“My daughter is not an introvert,
— she’s pretty”

An anonymous mother’s exclamation

One Babe had a problem.  She was an introvert – she was what they call shy — but she wanted to be an actress.

This Babe was lucky. At 17, she encountered “the most unforgettable character I’ve ever met.” The rest is history: for he, Salvatore, her unforgettable character, was not “intro-verted” — in fact he was far more gregarious than shy, or, in Latinized German jargon, he was “extro-verted.”  He had wiggled himself into the Los Angeles music scene; he had paid his dues as a gofer and backup singer for Phil Spector’s record company.

She had said: “For better or worse, I never plan my life. I focus on today. I love spontaneity. That is what has put me in some strange and wonderful places in my life.”

So how did this shy but ambitious teenager, a high school dropout, once one of Warren Beatty’s uncountable hook-ups, with no plans, become The Diva of Rock?

Well, I Got You Babe, as Salvatore PhillipSonnyBono, Promoter Artisan (ESTP), would say.  He knew Cherilyn Sarkisian, a Composer Artisan (ISFP) was his ticket. He heard her talent, before she and everybody else recognized it — and her singing, with his promoting, took them to the top. Problem solved.

The other Babe, also Intro-verted like Cher, had a different problem.  As a Healer Idealist (INFP), Isabel’s problem was:

[Isabel] Myers‘ E-I scale is badly flawed because she inherited Jung’s error of confusing extraversion with observation (S) and introversion with introspection (N). And so to make the E-I distinction useful at all, we must define the two concepts, not in terms of mental focus or interest, but in terms of social address or social attitude. [Please Understand Me II, page 331]

Dr. Keirsey uses the words “expressive” versus “attentive” as two words to express a clearer dichotomy of  individual’s social actions. And he has abandoned the use of Jung’s Latin argot, words “extroverted” and “introverted” that Jung picked up in Germany, more than a century ago.  The concepts of Introversion and Extroversion are often confusing in their use when applying them to personality types.

Myers types descriptions and letters, in general, can be confusing, or worse — hard to remember.  Not all E’s are the same, by a long shot.   For example, not all Inventor Rationals, which correlate to the Myers ENTP, are classically “extroverted” – some Inventor Rationals, such as Nikola Tesla, are very shy or often “reserved” in some social contexts.   These Inventors are not “extroverted” but rather they are expressive.  Inventors  must build or express their ideas in some kind of prototype form like Paul Allen or Mark Twain. Not all I’s are the same.  Some Introverts do not have to be shy in all contexts, like Bill Gates (INTJ), who can be rather dominating in some conversations.

So, Dr. Keirsey said in effect “I Got You Babe” to Isabel Myers, when he said:

So the debt owed Isabel Myers by students of human conduct is truly enormous.  … For I was later to find that the four groups of personality types described by Myers corresponded nicely with the four personality types of several predecessors…

The use of personality types presently extends to more than 170 countries in more than 20 different languages. More than 40 million people have taken the Keirsey Temperament Sorter since its introduction 30 years ago. Keirsey Temperament Theory is utilized throughout the world by leading organizations for team building, employee and executive development, conflict resolution, academic counseling, and career planning, among other uses.

I Got You Babe.

For it is not everyday Keirsey or Bono will be there to help.

8 thoughts on “I Got You Babe: Isabel’s problem

    • David Keirsey May 4, 2011 / 8:53 pm

      I think he more likely a bad, serious actor (and director); that’s why they lost so much money. He was ok as a straight funny man, with Cher. He had to go into politics when she left; he was nothing much as a singer, actor, or director.

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      • Brian Sorgatz June 9, 2011 / 5:42 pm

        Minor technical issue, Dave, as long as you’re not too busy with other stuff: I don’t believe I ever got an email notification of your above reply to my comment, and I think I probably should have. My memory could be playing tricks, but maybe you could put it on your “B” or “C” list of things possibly to do. Just sayin’.

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  1. Kel June 7, 2011 / 3:00 pm

    You type Bill Gates as an INTJ. I’ve seen him typed by othre experts as an INTP and an ENTJ. How sure are you, expressed by percentage in your typing? To me, I would say that Gates is an INTP, in that he has the raw intelligence level, and does not come accross as a “know-it-all-jerk” in the way most, or at least many INTJs do.

    Also, what do you think of Jonathan Niednagel’s work regarding MBTI and direct correlation to Neurobiological differences in people including differences in fine and gross motor skills?

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    • David Keirsey June 7, 2011 / 8:55 pm

      Actually for about 35 years I figured Bill Gates was a Fieldmarshal Rational (ENTJ). I became aware of him when Microsoft was selling BASIC interpreters, before DOS, before the PC revolution. I know so many of “arrogant” Mastermind Rationals (INTJ)s from being in science and computer science all my life. But, no, being an Architect Rational (INTP), myself, I never saw Gates as an INTP. Yes, probably most Masterminds appear as “know-it-all-jerks” — Gates, is definitely Proactive (NTJ), just compare him to Paul Allen. I do know a few “nice” Masterminds — still, they may be wrong, but they doubt it! You might be interested in Real Idea Men (I started in the computer field earlier than Gates and Allen, wrote an interpreter on paper tape three years earlier — got no money for that…) Say 90% Mastermind, 10% Fieldmarshal. Bill calls himself an “introvert”.

      Re: MBTI. Isabel did a great job of observing, but her “theory” has problems. I am not familiar with Jonathan Niednagel’s work. My question would be “what does his theory give you?” — as William James would say “What is it’s cash value?” Sounds interesting, but I am not a psychologist or neurophysiologist (only read a few books). My expertise, besides personality, is Artificial Intelligence. However, remember what Feynman said: “I’ll never listen to experts, again.” (And us Architects are even worse.)

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  2. Kel June 7, 2011 / 9:33 pm

    Niednagel is not a scientist either, he’s a guy with a business degree from a third-rate university, who came to his unique spin on Myers-Briggs from watching little league baseball. He has some strange theories: ENTPs are one of the most popular brain types, being the one that sticks out.

    He claims to be able to type people just by watching the walk or play sports. He is employed as a consultant by many professional sports franchises and claims to be working on a genetic test for personality type right now.

    I think that when Gates is typed as an ENTJ, people are taking the “Fieldmarshall” label too literally. He does not seem to have the forceful, rock-solid nature that I find in most ENTJs (my boss is a prototype).

    I’ve read most of the books by Myers, Briggs, Tieger,Kroeger and the rest, but I must say that your is still the Magnum Opus, probably followed closely by “Your Best Sport” by Niednagel.

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  3. Lars June 16, 2011 / 1:48 am

    I think Niednagels work is a fake. He just does clever marketing and over the top exaggerating regarding his work. He always writes about revolutions and the break through, but he never delivered anything to prove his sayings or even showed evidence that he really is doing research. I highly doubt he conducts studies or does real neuroscience (as he claims), because real neuroscientists would laugh at him.
    He also claims he is 100% right and unfailing when typing people, which is ridiculous. No one can be infallibly.

    Like

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